[TheShadowEntity]

I am posing this as a question to the staff and player-base as it has come up in RP on occasion and the books only really went into depth on the issue in first edition D&D. Also i invite anyone to look this topic up and draw there own conclusions as well because while i still have my 3.5 edition stuff my 1st edition books are long gone.

In D&D Reverie (or the elven equivalent of sleep) is described in a level of detail that no other edition came close to. It is described in all books as a trance like state in which the elf is able to rest while remaining fully aware of there surroundings. The difference is that in first edition (and its compendiums) the mechanics of this ability were discussed and this reveals some deep insights into what reverie actually IS.

In First Edition D&D Reverie is described not as a inherently racial trait (although it is treated as one for purposes of play) but rather as a learned trait that is passed down through generations as a closely guarded secret. This puts reverie as the FR equivalent to "Wood Steel" in ancient India. The smiths that made this steel were not born with this knowledge but were shown how to make the material from an early age. The skill was considered such an important secret that they would rather die than pass it on to anyone that wasn't there decedent and when the family's that made it died off the secret was lost for hundreds of years.

In the same way First edition D&D seems to describe reverie. Even stating that elves "Can" sleep in that they are biologically capable of doing so however they never do so if they have a choice because reverie is so much more efficient and in effect prevents things like nightmares. At the same time it seems to indicate just how far the elves will go to protect this secret as it would keeping secret the art of reverie on par with how viciously they defend there distant homeland. Its not because none else could do it or even because they cant do otherwise but rather because its one of the few remaining things the elves have that they can hold above others.

This description was never contradicted in any later D&D book. In fact the issue of what reverie actually was, was never touched upon again in later editions. But it brings up an interesting set of questions. By this description, it seems that any race could in theory learn how to reverie if they could ever figure out how.


Anyway that's just my thoughts... what about yours? Remember this wouldn't change anything as far as RP because even if it is a learned trait everyone would more than likely just assume that "elves just do that thing" and the elves most defiantly wouldn't be correcting them. However i was curious what you guys thought on the issue.

[Animayhem]

I am not that versed on D and D Lore I would think that Reverie would be a race trait maybe having to be honed to be used properly much like winged creatures who need to learn to fly. Elves for the most part are a private race.

Something to be done in private or with other Elves.


I guess it could be akin to meditation techniques used by yogis and others or even a self form of hypnosis.

[WillowWhite]

AD&D Complete Book of Elves. This is the first place, as far as I know, that this topic was broken down in full. The entire book is available in full online.

Elves are Fey Humanoids. They are more akin to nymphs and fairies than humans in many ways. They have several odd abilities to include Communion (think Avatar's bonding ... MAKE THE BOND :p ) and Reverie.

Yes, elves can sleep. Yes, it is very similar to yoga or mediation. No, reverie is not learned or taught. They're just born that way.

Relevant sections;

Physiology
Elves have certain abilities not accessible to most humans except through powerful magicks.
They are aware that other races do not have these faculties, and they take great pride in knowing that they are the only mortal race blessed with them. However, most elves do not treat other races as inferior simply because they were born without these abilities; rather, they rejoice in their own uniqueness. The elves feel truly blessed.
Among the abilities all elves are born with are communion, elvensight, manifestation, the reverie, and a limited resistance to heat and cold. Each of these is more fully explained in the following text.

Fast forward to ....

The Reverie
Yet another difference between elves and the other humanoids of the worlds they share is that elves do not sleep in the typical sense, though they can enter that state if they desire. Instead, they gain their rest through a process known as the reverie. The reverie is akin to sleep, yet is very much unlike it. When elves enter this state, they vividly relive past memories, those both pleasant and painful. Like the dreaming of humans, elves have no control over which memories rise to the fore when they relinquish their bodies to the reverie.

Occasionally, elves do actually dream, but this is not a frequent occurrence and mostly occurs only when they truly sleep. Elven dreams, when they happen, are sometimes prophetic. Whether these dreams are an indication of some sort of precognitive ability on the part of the elves or granted by their gods is a matter of debate. However, not all elven dreams are prophetic. Indeed, enough of their dreams are like those of humans that they cannot rely on their dreams for guidance. Still, all of their dreams are highly symbolic, providing insight into each individual's character.

In a very real way, the reverie accounts for the elven desire to lead happy, joyous lives.
Who would look forward to reliving unpleasant memories every night? Very few, though there are some truly noble elves who take on the pain and suffering of others so that they relive the memories with each reverie instead. These elves have accepted this sacrifice for the good of their people, taking upon themselves the burden that could not (or should not) descend to the lives of other, more innocent elves. They perform the unpleasant task of drawing into themselves the suffering of their people.

When they enter reverie, elves do not usually close their eyes unless there is a bright light present. They relax their bodies entirely, each muscle losing its rigidity, until they are absolutely calm. Their faces relax into a dazed and distant look as if they were seeing another land or another time.

During this time, they are aware of their surroundings, but they cannot act to influence them any more than a human can while asleep. Only by an act of will can an elf tear herself from reverie, and she will be confused for a short time, just as a human would be who has torn himself from sleep.

Although the reverie provides rest, it is primarily an important memory tool that helps the elf maintain a strong sense of identity. Since their lifespans are so great, elves must periodically recall the events in those hundreds of years that were integral to the making of their personality.

The fact that elves go into this reverie, rather than enter actual sleep, could help to explain their natural resistance to sleep spells. Since sleep is, for the most part, alien to their nature, they can ward off its effects easily. But since the reverie is akin to sleep, they suffer no ill effects when they do fall victim to sleep spells and like magicks. The combination of reverie and manifestation may also account for the elves' near-immunity to charm-related enchantments. The reverie imparts a strong sense of self, giving them a secure identity. They are intimately attuned to their own lives, wants, and needs and are therefore not easily misled about their goals. They allow only themselves to determine their course of action.

Their innate manifestation ability makes them well aware of efforts to influence them through extranatural means. Since they can sway others, they are conscious of attempts to manipulate them and can resist these endeavors with more authority and success than most other races.

[Animayhem]

I had a feeling Willow would know. I have always suspected she may really be an Elf. :)

[TheShadowEntity]

Love the reply willow :D

I checked the book i had and your right, that is mentioned word for word in second edition book of elves. However that book contradicts itself in that section you gave.

Elves have certain abilities not accessible to most humans except through powerful magicks.

That statement has two words that make the question so interesting... those words being Most Humans.

If most humans cant do it without magic than clearly some humans can.. It also didn't say "humanoids" but specifically "Humans". The fact that some humans have figured out how to reverie means that it must be a learned, or at least learn able, trait.

Also i am glad you guys like this topic

[Sundraoi]

I don't think that humans have necessarily learned to revery but there are those that may come close. Monks, for instance. They can go into a meditative state where they are aware of their surroundings just as elves are. The state is restful to the monk just as revery is to an elf.

[Nehetsrev]

If most humans cant do it without magic than clearly some humans can.. It also didn't say "humanoids" but specifically "Humans". The fact that some humans have figured out how to reverie means that it must be a learned, or at least learn able, trait.

Your statement is incorrect to assume that because some Humans can that they are able to do so through learning. It could be they were born with a genetic pre-disposition, or mutation allowing them to reverie as an Elf does. Or they could be 'blessed' by the gods from birth.

Regardless of whatever consensus might be agreed upon in this thread, it is also worthy to always keep in mind that it is a DM's prerogative, and not the players, to determine what, if any exceptions to rules might exist in their own campaign.

Just sayin'.
;)

[TheShadowEntity]

If most humans cant do it without magic than clearly some humans can.. It also didn't say "humanoids" but specifically "Humans". The fact that some humans have figured out how to reverie means that it must be a learned, or at least learn able, trait.

Your statement is incorrect to assume that because some Humans can that they are able to do so through learning. It could be they were born with a genetic pre-disposition, or mutation allowing them to reverie as an Elf does. Or they could be 'blessed' by the gods from birth.

Regardless of whatever consensus might be agreed upon in this thread, it is also worthy to always keep in mind that it is a DM's prerogative, and not the players, to determine what, if any exceptions to rules might exist in their own campaign.

Just sayin'.
;)

heh... I wouldn't worry too much Nehetsrev, the point of this topic was never to create a standard but just so that people could think and share there thoughts :)

Not sure if D&D considers things like genetic trends but i wouldn't be all too surprised if it did with all the sub-races we have. There is of course also the possibility that the author made a mistake in terminology as well but it still makes for an interesting topic of conversation and debate :)