[Hellstrom]

So over in the Class Modification discussion I asked some questions about poisons in Thay, wondering if players can tell me how effective they are. I don't want to pollute that thread with this discussion so... here it is.

I've never used poisons but I know there is an extensive array of poisons available, some of which look pretty damaging.

Here's what I think I know about poisons in Thay, feel free to correct me.

* Poisons can only be applied to weapons by a character with the Use Poison feat. So either an Assassin or a Blackguard
* Poison on a weapons lasts for exactly two (2) hits. A whiffed attack does not count toward that limit.
* Poisons don't do HP damage, they reduce stats. That can kill you if you're damaged already and it reduces CON, or the poison will kill if it reduces any stat to 0. Is that correct?

So, some questions:
1) Can ranged weapons be poisoned?
2) Is there any chance of failing to poison a weapon or poisoning yourself?
3) Most importantly, how effective/worthwhile is it to use poisons?

[DarkRanger]

1. I believe so.

2. No, standard NWN implementation is that using poisons without the feat does a dexterity check to determine whether you poison yourself or the weapon, Thay implementation means don't use it without the feat(not sure if it just fails or poisons you)

3. Not having used them extensively myself I can't fully comment, but I imagine careful and correct use can make things a bit easier, poisoning caster stat, strength for melee opponents, con for any enemy. That being said, the best poisons tend to be pricey which is probably a big reason most don't use them.

[Hellstrom]

Thanks :)

I agree with #3. They can be super-pricey, but they do also drop as treasure from creatures. But almost every time I've thought "Hey, I'll hang onto this nice poison and give/sell it to someone who can use it" I've basically gotten a shrug from the PC I talked to about it.

As I recall Siucre had a drow assassin and she'd accept poisons, but again with a bit of a shrug. I've never gotten the feeling they're very useful to PCs. I've certainly never seen a message board posting like "I WANT TO BUY YOUR POISONS".

My main reason for asking is that if poisons aren't worthwhile it makes the Use Poison feat useless.

[LifeLikeSage]

So over in the Class Modification discussion I asked some questions about poisons in Thay, wondering if players can tell me how effective they are. I don't want to pollute that thread with this discussion so... here it is.

I've never used poisons but I know there is an extensive array of poisons available, some of which look pretty damaging.

Here's what I think I know about poisons in Thay, feel free to correct me.

* Poisons can only be applied to weapons by a character with the Use Poison feat. So either an Assassin or a Blackguard
* Poison on a weapons lasts for exactly two (2) hits. A whiffed attack does not count toward that limit.
* Poisons don't do HP damage, they reduce stats. That can kill you if you're damaged already and it reduces CON, or the poison will kill if it reduces any stat to 0. Is that correct?

So, some questions:
1) Can ranged weapons be poisoned?
2) Is there any chance of failing to poison a weapon or poisoning yourself?
3) Most importantly, how effective/worthwhile is it to use poisons?

1.) Some of the poisons on the server are still broken.
2.) Poisons are practically useless when dealing with NPCs. Their only practical application are against PCs, and from that strength and constitution are the star stats to target.

[Kolde]

* Poisons can only be applied to weapons by a character with the Use Poison feat. So either an Assassin or a Blackguard

Unless Thay changed it anyone can use poisons, its a dex check vs the handle DC. The Use Poison feat makes it so that you don't need to make the check, it always succeeds.

[Hellstrom]

1.) Some of the poisons on the server are still broken.

Can you describe how they are broken?

Have you logged a bug on it?

Unless Thay changed it anyone can use poisons, its a dex check vs the handle DC. The Use Poison feat makes it so that you don't need to make the check, it always succeeds.

From what I recall it has been modified on Thay

[Balanor]

I just went through and greatly reduced the price of all poisons. Some have been reduced by several thousand gold, except for the two poisons that cause permanent abilities score decreases. I also turned off the restriction that the Use Poison feat is required, so that anyone can use them now as well. BUT, I also increased the Handle DC by quite a bit, so make sure you have decent dexterity before trying to use them or you'll poison yourself more often than not.

They can be applied to ranged weapons, melee weapons, and even food/drink items in Thay. Poison here lasts until the weapon successful hits a target, and should remain once applied to a weapon/food/drink even over server resets as well.

Overall though, I've always felt poisons in D&D 3.0 rules were pretty...'meh'. I feared poison a helluva lot more in games like Baldur's Gate (2nd edition rules), where poison would do damage for a number of rounds until either neutralized or it ran its course. This conversation has got me thinking that a type of wounding property, while not in alignment in D&D 3.x rules, might be a good way for poisons to start seeing some use. Especially after the large amount of time that was sunk into completely revising the poison system here long ago - and including all poisons types with it. Or, if nothing else, at least give Blackguards/Assassins an added benefit of wounding/poison damage with a successful strike. Kind of a hybrid of 2nd and 3rd edition rules. Any comments on that idea?

[Bertram Anders]

I just went through and greatly reduced the price of all poisons. Some have been reduced by several thousand gold, except for the two poisons that cause permanent abilities score decreases. I also turned off the restriction that the Use Poison feat is required, so that anyone can use them now as well. BUT, I also increased the Handle DC by quite a bit, so make sure you have decent dexterity before trying to use them or you'll poison yourself more often than not.

Awesome. I am looking forward to trying this out.

Overall though, I've always felt poisons in D&D 3.0 rules were pretty...'meh'. I feared poison a helluva lot more in games like Baldur's Gate (2nd edition rules), where poison would do damage for a number of rounds until either neutralized or it ran its course. This conversation has got me thinking that a type of wounding property, while not in alignment in D&D 3.x rules, might be a good way for poisons to start seeing some use. Especially after the large amount of time that was sunk into completely revising the poison system here long ago - and including all poisons types with it. Or, if nothing else, at least give Blackguards/Assassins an added benefit of wounding/poison damage with a successful strike. Kind of a hybrid of 2nd and 3rd edition rules. Any comments on that idea?

I like the idea of this change. You could implement a wounding type poison and that would work well. Though I would wait and see what suggestions come from the class change thread. If nothing better comes from it, that idea would be a marvelous addition to the assassin and BG classes and and a good incentive to take one of the two classes.

[LifeLikeSage]

As a follow up tp Hellstrom, some of the poisons simply vanish and fail to work on a bolt stack I've tried using them on. I've reported this problem before and it was found that poisons are simply inconsistent with actually applying to a weapon, at least when it comes to poisoning a stack of bolts.

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I just went through and greatly reduced the price of all poisons. Some have been reduced by several thousand gold, except for the two poisons that cause permanent abilities score decreases. I also turned off the restriction that the Use Poison feat is required, so that anyone can use them now as well. BUT, I also increased the Handle DC by quite a bit, so make sure you have decent dexterity before trying to use them or you'll poison yourself more often than not.

They can be applied to ranged weapons, melee weapons, and even food/drink items in Thay. Poison here lasts until the weapon successful hits a target, and should remain once applied to a weapon/food/drink even over server resets as well.

Overall though, I've always felt poisons in D&D 3.0 rules were pretty...'meh'. I feared poison a helluva lot more in games like Baldur's Gate (2nd edition rules), where poison would do damage for a number of rounds until either neutralized or it ran its course. This conversation has got me thinking that a type of wounding property, while not in alignment in D&D 3.x rules, might be a good way for poisons to start seeing some use. Especially after the large amount of time that was sunk into completely revising the poison system here long ago - and including all poisons types with it. Or, if nothing else, at least give Blackguards/Assassins an added benefit of wounding/poison damage with a successful strike. Kind of a hybrid of 2nd and 3rd edition rules. Any comments on that idea?

Poisons have always been a PvP heavy thing. If you wanted to beef poisons, why don't you make the stat debuff effects from poison vials require clerical attention instead of being able to rest them off?

For PvE, poisons are like additional assassin levels, useless. Even if you find an assassination mission target, the saves for many of the hostile NPCs are so high that mechanically it's a waste of gold to attempt to poison them.

[Balanor]

As a follow up tp Hellstrom, some of the poisons simply vanish and fail to work on a bolt stack I've tried using them on. I've reported this problem before and it was found that poisons are simply inconsistent with actually applying to a weapon, at least when it comes to poisoning a stack of bolts.

I don't recall this bug report or conversation. Can you please post the link to the problem report as I want to review it (again?).

....
If you wanted to beef poisons, why don't you make the stat debuff effects from poison vials require clerical attention instead of being able to rest them off?
...

Agreed. This was already done not long ago.
Edit: To clarify - this was changed for the poisons that PCs can apply which we're talking about here, not elsewhere...yet.