[Balanor]

Proposed changes will not modify existing characters themselves. That means no new feats/abilities per class will be initially lost or gained. However, if a feat/ability is modified in some way though (as in it exists on the character's character sheet), that will affect all characters. So for example, if someone is already a level 8 assassin, they won't just login one day and the the HiPS feat will automatically appear. Instead, it is my intention (and keep in mind this is ALL in 'rough draft form' at this time) to setup a brand new class checking/correcting section of code in the game's "OnLevelUp" event. That code will ensure that immediately after a PC levels-up, they are properly modified/setup for their class(es) modifications from standard NWN implementation. This will also be needed, in part, because the level-up summary for PCs -especially those who take modified PrC classes- may no longer be entirely accurate as far as speciali abilities gained.

So in other words; every time a PC levels up, it will cycle though what classes a PC has and remove, or add, feats/abilities/spells that can be cast/etc that differ in Thay from the way NWN originally implemented the class.

As far as changes to factions-becoming-classes, that I have not really thought through as -while I would like to implement things like the Red Wizards and Thayan knight PrCs- right now I just don't know. I want to avoid/eliminate relying on DMs to help re-level PCs in those factions. Most likely they'll just remain in whatever classes they are, with the benefit of being able to take the new PrC level son their next level-up. But I've also got over 100 spells on the to-do list as well. Between that and just the modification to the existing classes, I have more than enough to keep me busy for...well...possibly months.

[Bertram Anders]

I don't want to make any promises at this time, but I am strongly considering adding some Thay-specific PrCs in addition to those listed. Red Wizard and Thayan Knights are those getting the most serious consideration. Thayan Slaver, Thayan Gladiator, and Monk of the Long Death (they're based out of Thay) would be....longer-shot 'maybes'.

While it would be cool to see these implemented in game I don't think it is really necessary. I understand this is Thay and all, but if we were to add in other prestige classes I think I would like to see some other ones, the Black Flame Zealot comes to mind at first thought. As for Red Wizards I also think it would be very difficult to implement circle magic; which is honestly the biggest boon the class has. That being said Thayan Knights have some good perks for being a 5 level progression class.

I've always found the notion that you had to take a class to join an organization a bit absurd, it makes more sense to me that you could only take that specific class if you joined that organization. That is one of the reasons I really enjoy our faction system here on Thay. It lets you make almost any class combination you want to and still join you organization that you want to, it really opens up a lot of variety.

[Balanor]

Yeah - if any of these more faction-specific classes would be added, they would only become open to an someone *after* they join a faction (Red Wizards, Thayan Knights, Thayan Gladiator).

[LooseWilly]

I just wanted to throw in the idea, which I mentioned in the poison thread, of also giving assassins some means of increasing the DC on the poisons they use... perhaps just by giving them some sort of token or bonus feat which has some number of uses/day... which will add something like the bonus they have on saves against poison for themselves onto the save DC for a poison that they are about to apply (or have already applied)... unless it would be conceivable to just have a feat that adds dc to poisons without the hocus pocus of targeting a poisoned item.

Of course, the mention of HIPS at 8th means that they may not need as much extra love after all... but seeing an NPC actually seem to fail a save would be encouraging - and at higher levels the NPC saves will start to outstrip the DCs of poisons that can be purchased with any regularity.

Or... maybe a feat that allows the targeting of a potion bottle to... make a random poison (perhaps with a very very low ingredient cost)?

Brew Poison.

[LifeLikeSage]

I just wanted to throw in the idea, which I mentioned in the poison thread, of also giving assassins some means of increasing the DC on the poisons they use... perhaps just by giving them some sort of token or bonus feat which has some number of uses/day... which will add something like the bonus they have on saves against poison for themselves onto the save DC for a poison that they are about to apply (or have already applied)... unless it would be conceivable to just have a feat that adds dc to poisons without the hocus pocus of targeting a poisoned item.

Of course, the mention of HIPS at 8th means that they may not need as much extra love after all... but seeing an NPC actually seem to fail a save would be encouraging - and at higher levels the NPC saves will start to outstrip the DCs of poisons that can be purchased with any regularity.

Or... maybe a feat that allows the targeting of a potion bottle to... make a random poison (perhaps with a very very low ingredient cost)?

Brew Poison.

WOAAAHHH

Brew poison would be nice. If you had that, maybe you should consider using the RS_Respawn or whatever script you use for the Fenberry Bush and have the plants necessary for poison grow out randomly in the wild.

[Animayhem]

WOAAAHHH

Brew poison would be nice. If you had that, maybe you should consider using the RS_Respawn or whatever script you use for the Fenberry Bush and have the plants necessary for poison grow out randomly in the wild.

This would be good. I have seen it used elsewhere.

[LifeLikeSage]

This would be good. I have seen it used elsewhere.

NO I HAYCHU! YOU TAKE MY CARAMIRIEL AWAY!

=.<.............

[TheShadowEntity]

This isnt so much class as game mechanics but because this is about the new hakpack i would like to bring it up if only for discussion....

Right now we have those anti-scry rings.. its a great idea really but possibly a bit too perfect.. I think it might be a good idea that wizards with greater spell penetration should be able to make a roll to overpower the barrier. Somthing along those lines you know?

[Bertram Anders]

Bump.

[Balanor]

Something new for discussion -

Shadowdancers. When's the last time you've met a 2nd level Shadowdancer? If so, then you've obviously met a sucker who must be more concerned about the RP value of a build than how they can make the most 'powerful' build he can get with that HiPS feat....er....I mean that class, huh? ;) So in looking at balancing the Shadowdancer class and removing the tactic/exploit of taking only one level of Shadowdancer to get the coveted HiPS feat there appear to be two options:

1. Move HiPS to require someone to reach a higher Shadowdancer level, which makes Shadowdancers no longer implemented as per how they are in either D&D or core NWN. I believe there are more than a couple PWs that take this route, but I will say it is one I personally do not like because it moves away from both NWN implementation *and* D&D implementation - which makes it a house rule that someone who joins here has to learn in addition to the NWN/&D way things are done.

2. Require someone who takes one level in Shadowdancer to take at least X number more. Again, this too is not required in D&D or NWN and makes it more of a house rule. Although at least in this way the NWN implementation remains true - it's just that someone who takes 1 level of Shadowdancer must plan to include at least X number more levels of this class in their level 20 build of the PC.

What are your thoughts on the above choices? Do you have others you'd recommend to address what I see as an exploit/problem with the Shadowdancer class being taken only to get HiPS? This is something I will be addressing with the hak update, so comments now will shape whatever solution gets developed.