[Payne]

Question for those in the know.

Some consider spell focus and spell penetration "Meta Magic" feats, (even craft wand and craft potion) even though they are listed as "General" on the feats themselves.

Is that so here? I ask for the requirements to becoming an apprentice, being you need to have 3 meta magic feats.

I searched and didn't find anything, but while I wait I can look again.

[kta]

This is purely a question of game mechanics - metamagic feats that also count as such for the process of becoming a Red Wizard are listed here. Spell fouc/penetration does not count.

KTA

[Jechal]

the requirements to become a red wizard, or an apprentice, is for 3 meta magic or item creation feats. since wizards get scribe scroll (item creation) for free at 1st level then really you only have to choose 2 more, unless you are attempting to make a sorcerer a red wizard... not sure if that is doable, but there is cannon to support that somewhere i am sure.

more info can be found here

also be sure to choose a school to specialize in at character creation.

[Payne]

Dang, I screwed that up then. Knew I should have took more time in leveling up. Ah well, should get a feat at level 6 unless there is a way to lose a quick 60 exp to redo my level

[kta]

... unless there is a way to lose a quick 60 exp to redo my level

Hint, hint... enchantmentforges...

KTA

[Payne]

Oooo!

Or I could have just kept making scrolls...... *facepalm* I am a horrible wizard, I may as well accept defeat at the trials already

[theredknight_x]

the requirements to become a red wizard, or an apprentice, is for 3 meta magic or item creation feats. since wizards get scribe scroll (item creation) for free at 1st level then really you only have to choose 2 more, unless you are attempting to make a sorcerer a red wizard... not sure if that is doable, but there is cannon to support that somewhere i am sure.

more info can be found here

also be sure to choose a school to specialize in at character creation.

Sorcerers can't specialize, and by definition can't be Red Wizards.

Besides, Thayans for the most part despise Sorcerers. When found, they're screwed. Best plan for someone with Sorcerous blood in them is to leave Thay or hide VERY well.

Examples are all over the source material. EG. PG 205 of Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting on the bottom right of the page, where the description of Thay starts states:

"Those whose talents run to sorcery channel their talents into wizardry, suppress them, or leave the country. The Red Wizards despise sorcerers, who don't follow the carefully regimented system of magical schools."

Beware, bastard magicians :)

[Jechal]

Sorcerers can be red wizards,... but it is very rare and yes, they are disliked. But it is possible..... posible for Bards to be Red Wizards too... extremely rare but possible

in the link i posted a few posts up...

While it is possible for a sorcerer or bard to become a Red Wizard, such misfits are ridiculed in their homeland and are incredibly rare.

[theredknight_x]

Explain how a Sorcerer can specialize in a school of magic then? Only wizards can specialize.

Your quote is right from the Red Wizard prestige class in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, I know. Put the blame on WOTC for backwards logic. Problem is in that same section for the Red Wizard it *Requires* those who take it to specialize in a school of magic in order to take the Tattoo Focus feat, which is a requirement for the class. Which none can do but the wizard. It was likely just an oversight on the part of the writers because they broke their own logic in that. @_@ I can understand why anyone could be confused with it.

So if you go strictly by the rules of the server itself, red wizards must be specialized, by definition you can't be anything *but* a wizard.

If you go by the PnP requirements you need the Tattoo Focus feat, which requires you to be specialized, and thus you must be a wizard to specialize, to be a Red Wizard.

Trust me Jechal, I know the pain of reading that sentence. I don't know how many PnP games I've DM'ed where someone pointed that out to me. And every time I have to go through this ridiculous explanation that could have been avoided if whomever wrote the Prestige Class descriptions would have read the damn requirements for the prestige class.

*sighs to WOTC for not thinking that one through*

Sorcerers can be red wizards,... but it is very rare and yes, they are disliked. But it is possible..... posible for Bards to be Red Wizards too... extremely rare but possible

in the link i posted a few posts up...

While it is possible for a sorcerer or bard to become a Red Wizard, such misfits are ridiculed in their homeland and are incredibly rare.

[Jechal]

if you multi class and take 1 level of wizard and the rest of your classes to meet the spell level casting requirement is from sorcerer or bard you can still join the faction.


you do not need to be a 5th level wizard (3rd level arcane spells), but at least a 1 wiz/ 5 sor to meet the spelizeation and spell level requirement for apprentice..
so if you are a sorcerer and want to join the red wizards I guess you will need to take one level of wizard just to be able to specialize, but not sure if your restricted wizard spells will effect your sorcerer spell casting ability.... i personally feel it pointless to multi class these two classes, but that is why it is suppose to be RARE for them to be Red Wizards, their are just not a lot of Sorcerers who decide to limit their spells and spontaneous casting ability to study and memorize spells each day.