[Hellstrom]

Good discussion - this definitely helps me to understand things a bit better. I know there's definitely no single answer that covers every situation, but I think this will help me with in some things that might arise.

Thanks all :)

[Aramil Leah]

Well atleast we know Cain won't b.... An Elder Dire Badger? Cain? Really? >.>.....

Ok im done making fun of Cain but I agree, I have a habit of missing important things (One character (Or three or four) got beat up because player wise I missed a comment telling me titles or such)

I've always wondered however, how might an RWA treat a non-red wizard but is a very powerful wizard, human in this case, how would they treat them? I know with an elf or a gnome wizard wouldnt get much respect from any *potential* RWA, much less anything higher. I mean, a human (or elven) archmage, 10 or more levels higher, how would it go? They arent a red wizard so they are below me, but they could kill me with a single spell... What to do what to do?

[EdinSumar]

Non-mulan spellcasters are the scum of the earth and should rightfully not meddle in the affairs of magic.

Still, if it can kill you, probably not a good idea to tell it that.

---

Such powerful spellcastes will not exist in Thay, though, not freely live there, so it is not much of a problem, usually. Since only possible Red Wizards (that is, mulan human) are allowed to learn magic in Thay, officially. Of course, the law is sometimes ignores, but still.

[Aramil Leah]

But what if a PC somehow avoids slavers, avoids RW or Legion attention, and continues to study spellcasting and does become that great of a wizard?

And if that IS that case, whats with all the NPC spellcasters? If only Red Wizards can study The Art how do we get so many spell casting NPCs of increasing spell power in the game? Im just trying to work this out because I had an old spellcaster (An elf amusingly enough, takethat human only RWs!) who, compared to the rest of the PCs back then (Mostly everyone was around 2nd or 3rd level that she met) could very well beat most of them. She stuided magic openly (and was a known follower and preacher of Mystra) yet she was never caught by someone with authority. How would a lesser RWA treat her for example?

[EdinSumar]

She stuided magic openly (and was a known follower and preacher of Mystra) yet she was never caught by someone with authority. How would a lesser RWA treat her for example?

To be fair, this is probably only because it never came to the attention of anyone with real authority, which is always a possibility on NWN servers. In Thay, openly preaching about Mystra and spreading magical knowledge under the noses of Red Wizards gets you killed, simple as that, but it's impossible to simulate the legal system of a whole country all the time.

To answer your question, I think they would excuse themselves rather quickly, tell a more powerful Red Wizard, and then watch her get killed or enslaved.

There -are- other spellcasting NPCs, yes, but you need to take into account that the NPCs you see on the server are not every single person in Thay. Bezantur alone has around 140,000 inhabitants as far as I remember, and those few people who are not Red Wizards yet know magic are a very small minority, not "many people" at all, who are living a dangerous life, yet for some reason is able to keep it up, due to allies, luck or skill. They are not still alive because they openly preached the word of Mystra or openly studied magic, then they would be dead.

[Hellstrom]

Good response Edin, thanks for the info. I want to make sure I understand as this directly affects one of my chars.

Is it illegal simply to be a non-RW wizard in Thay? Or are non-RW wizards tolerated as long as they are not sharing their spells/knowledge and preaching about banned gods, or do they have to entirely hide the fact that they're a wizard?

What about sorcs and bards who use arcane spells? What if they take the Scribe Scroll feat and are creating scrolls for others (and thereby sharing arcane knowledge)?

[EdinSumar]

It's pretty hard to say what is hard and fast "illegal" since the legal system of Thay pretty much runs on "whatever the Red Wizards and those few other people in power don't like, yeah, that's illegal". The Red Wizards have banned the worship of Azuth and Mystra precisely because these two gods support the free spread of magical knowledge, and a big deal of the power Red Wizards hold in their own country is precisely because of the monopoly they have. It's an old political thing you see all the time in the real world too, the people with the knowledge holds the power, and the Red Wizards would like to hold on to their power (naturally).

I'd say it very much depends on a ton of factors, but in general (and this is a very big generalisation) most Red Wizards would probably kill off any non-mulan magic user on the off chance that the person is involved in "ilegally spreading magical knowledge". If, on the very very rare off-chance that the person could actually teach them something, they would probably squeeze it out of them first.

Note that this is by no means universal, there are Red Wizards who tolerate, even protect non-mulan spellcasters, for their own reasons, but that is not the general state of affairs.

Sorcerors and Bards, well, innate spellcasters in general are looked down upon in most Faerunian cultures, owing to the fact that they are feared for their power, or that they are the target of jealousy from those who spend years mastering even simple cantrips, or any other factors. A Sorceror or Bard in Thay should probably not be obnoxious about the fact, but since there is lesser chance that they are directly spreading magical knowledge amongst the lower classes, paradoxically, it might be a bit safer to openly be a Sorcerer or a Bard than a Wizard. If they believe you are a Sorceror, anyways.

(A side note, remember that the majority of performers and musicians are not Bards and have no Bard levels. Bards are innate casters who pair their innate magical power (from the same source as Sorcerers, dragon blood, fiend blood, celestial blood, so on) with a proficiency for the arts, lending a focus for it. The majority of performers and musicians are experts or commoners.)

Well, that is my thoughts on the subject, at least.

[Hellstrom]

Thanks, I appreciate hearing your thoughts both in-game and on the forums, it's been a big help to me.

Next related question, based on "If they believe you are a Sorceror, anyways". How realistic would it be for an innate spellcaster to pretend to be a Wizard, and vice versa? I'm sure it would be easy to fool commoners who basically have no knowledge of magic, but is it realistic to assume you could fool an arcane caster? I'd generally think not, at least as far as casting spells that are common to both of them.

Thanks! :)

[EdinSumar]

As far as I understand there are no real differences in the casting process. The Sorceror's is natural and innate, while the Wizard's is a mimicry to produce the desired effects, but not "natural" as much as constructed, carefully measured and timed. The very act of casting the spell would look identical, the Sorcerer does it "by heart" because he simply knows how to do it due to his blood, the Wizard has trained and mastered it through rote learning.

However, a Sorcerer would be pretty stumped if a Wizard ever asked him about the finer points of arcane spellcasting, since the chance of him knowing any of that is comparatively rare. It's a matter of being good at something due to natural ability (Sorceror) or being good at something due to a long and hard path of training (Wizard). Kind of like the difference between someone who is just naturally good at something and someone who has studied it in detail to be just as good. The one who is just naturally good at it might not know all the fancy words or all the details, but the application is just the same in many ways, he just does it without really knowing how it works.

EDIT: This is another reason why Sorcerers might be looked down upon, they are upstart and don't really know what power they have, and not wise enough to wield it safely since they were never schooled in it. At least that is what one might think.

[Arios]

The Sorceror's is natural and innate, while the Wizard's is a mimicry to produce the desired effects, but not "natural" as much as constructed, carefully measured and timed.

EDIT: This is another reason why Sorcerers might be looked down upon, they are upstart and don't really know what power they have, and not wise enough to wield it safely since they were never schooled in it. At least that is what one might think.

Expanding on that last point, sorcerors can and should be seen as extremley reckless and massively dangerous as they increase in power. The big difference is while a wizard spends years of hard training and patient discipline aquiring say, a fireball, a sorceror can be down the local tavern in a heated arguement, snap, and suddenly channel all that anger into a fireball, reducing a fair portion of the place and the people in it to ashes and kindling.
They're really not someone you want to be letting run around unchecked.

And a big thing right here! Wizards use and have high intelligence for spellcasting whereas sorcerors do things via charisma, so, force of personality.
So, a sorceror who can cast the gate spell is unlikely to stop and think "Wait a minute, is unleashing a balor on the streets of Bezantur really a good idea?", and more likely to think "Eat that guy that tried to mug me!"
And then the balor goes on a rampage, fireballs and implosions fly, buildings are destroyed and people maimed. The balor is happy, the local authorities are not (assuming they wern't killed).

Essentially sorcerors are (generally) magical hotheads that burn down their enemies, allies and all the structures inbetween, especially when provoked to anger. Not really the type of people you want running around unchecked.
Whilst wizards are (generally) the calculating types that burn down only what they intend to burn down.

Sorcerors = collateral damage.

Lots of collateral damage.