[EdinSumar]

They are one and the same, and it is counted as a Guild, not a Temple. You an join it without being affiliated with Mask, though you better pay him lip service.

This is my understanding of it, at least.

- Edin

[Balanor]

Yup.

[Creldest]

Thank you for the info! Woulda been sad if I couldn't have become overlord of the thieves...

[Misty's Daughter]

You know Aconite will compete with you for that rank...*chuckles, her hand reaching smoothly into her pocket and remaining there as her fingers pinch a small vial of poison and roll it around gently*

[The Philosopher]

I would like to pose a query.

What of Champions of Torm (arguably nothing more or less than the Divine Champion class with a far too specific naming)? Should they, too, not have clergy status, as paladins and blackguards do?

I would argue that it is a PrC as closely tied to faith as paladins and blackguards, despite their militaristic tendencies, which they do share with the former. Doubly so since the Divine Champion class is a stand-in for such deities as cannot sponsor paladins directly, such as Chaotic and Neutral deities.

Could they not be added in to the general classes allowed to progress down the Temple paths of power?

[Balanor]

It makes sense, and is something to consider. However, I'm fairly certain that in the 4+ years Thay has been around we have less than a handful of PCs that took even one level of Champion of Torm (honestly - I can't think of any PCs that have gone the CoT route). So since the design change to allow this would be a little bit of work, and since I haven't seen much of a demand for CoT class modifications/setup in the PW (yet), this may take a back burner - for now.

[The Philosopher]

I am planning to bring a character down the CoT road, see, hence the question.

And no worries, it's nothing urgent.

[Wids]

Thanks for directing me to this thread, kta. :)

So it'll be another Level or two before Tristella's encounter with a very special visitor from Banehold bears fruit and she can emerge from her spiritual chrysalis with a Level in Blackguard. Hurray! :D

Now, any humdrum Cyricist or Banite can equate a Blackguard with black armor, intimidating glares, burned villages, poisoned wells and mounds of slaughtered peasants and soldiers...death, death, more death and all the usual stuff. But a while back I figured that, if you want a more charming and elegant kind of Blackguard who can swim through social circles with ease--and warm handshakes and kisses and comforting words--yet whose anger alone can still inspire people to throw themselves on their own swords because the last thing they want is for that passionately enraged Blackguard to take them alive...that would be a very rare and special kind of Blackguard. The kind that only a sick puppy like Loviatar can hatch. >:]

(Trist should be well on her way already, with how she alternately comforts and torments certain monsters, NPCs and PCs alike. Just ask Dark and Tainted Darkbloody Blood-Blooded about that. ;) "By the way, my dear, I LOVE your vest! Is that velvet?" *THRASH!* "Now, give me your hands and I'll take all the pain away....")

But the first post in this thread is kind of ouchie. Does Loviatar not like Blackguards? Will poor Tristella be doomed to Lay Person status forever no matter how many Blackguard levels she has? :(

(Well, at least she has access to the Manor's altar and torture chambers now. That's pretty nice. Ale party at the Manor, people! Bring your own elves. )

[Wids]

Okay, here's another question for curiosity's sake.

Temples
Temples are joinable by any class, however in most cases only those with divine powers can become true temple clergy. Progression within a temple consists of several ranks attained by achieving the necessary level of notoriety in addition to any class requirements listed.

Temple Initiate - New PC of any class. Receives a small discount to temple healing and stores if they exist. Discount increases as new temple ranks are attained
Lay Member - Temple Initiate of any class. Receives faction item and may access restricted areas of the temple
Clergy Initiate - Lay Member who has at least 1 Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Blackguard, or Divine Champion level. Note that not all faiths allow Druids, Paladins, or Blackguards so review the in-game list of Forgotten Realms gods in the Player Guide for those that do. May begin using faction item to request aid from other members of the temple and extraplanar servants of their god, and to freeze or unfreeze faction advancement of a lower ranking member
Clergy - Clergy Initiate who has at least 5 Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Blackguard, or Divine Champion levels and the necessary level of notoriety. May begin using faction item to kick lower ranking members from the temple
Respected Clergy - Clergy member who has at least 10 Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Blackguard, or Divine Champion levels and the necessary level of notoriety. May begin using faction item to provide Clergy Initiates and below a one-time promotion to the next rank

Do these Class requisites stack? For example, if a Level 3 Cleric/Level 2 Paladin with sufficient Notoriety were a member of Hoar's temple in the Keep of Sorrows, would that character be eligible for Clergy rank? :-/

Thanky. :)

[Balanor]

Hey Wids. Blackguards will count as clergy for Loviatar soon (will make that change in a day or so). And divine class requisites do stack - so in your example that character would be eligible for the temple clergy.