[Sundraoi]

I don't like the jumping forward idea. It takes us to uncharted territory for Thay and outside the lore that Thayan and others really enjoy sticking to.

As for the jump back and total reboot?... I've been there before. The server I played on most before coming here did a total reboot (and hundred year jump) when we came out of beta and switched to CEP 2.2. There were some that fussed but it was not put to a vote, the admin decreed this would happen. EVERYONE lost their PC but we were able to play their descendants. I think it would be neat to maybe play the ancestor of one or two of mine if we do a total reboot. Yeah, having all your PCs scrapped is a bitch. But really, think about it. One or even a few going back in time from a time bubble or whatever seems "doable" but how many PCs are on Thay now? That's a lot of people who would have been miraculously transported back in time... and not all of them would be in the same place for the "bubble" to catch them.

I know a reboot would upset some of our playesr, but it would start everyone on even footing, Thayan wouldn't have the hassle of having to do the time jump for all current PCs. Also, TheSupremeForce made a good point when he said...

NWN is at the point where its remaining players are more likely to "try" a PW where everyone's on the same foot. There's little incentive to try something new if the PC's running around on it are all ten to twenty levels higher. I'm not saying that people don't do that at all, but "new" servers tend to open with huge numbers for basically that reason.

I guess my question to those who say they would leave if we rebooted is this:
If you had to go to another server what level would you start at? What sort of "notoriety" would you have? Would you be known by all or just another face in the crowd? I think, unless you play on other servers, you'd be in the same position you'd be in here; starting levels and no idea who is who character wise. So... what's the difference in a reboot and playing with players you already know or leaving to go to a server where you don't know the players and are still starting level?

I'm all for the reboot... or a time warp, though I think the complete reboot would be easier. But.. I'll stick around and play regardless of what you decide T. I enjoy the players and the staff here and whether we trudge on from here to new territory, jump back in time or do a complete reboot, the players and staff won't change nor will my enjoyment on Thay.

[Balanor]

This is something I spoke of to the staff, and as it would be part of any reboot campaign, I did not want to provide too many spoilers about that campaign. BUT, I think for the sake of discussion and trying to ease fears, I am going to mention it anyway.

If a campaign should occur that will culminate in a setting reboot, we can do massive, wonderful, and terrible things. Tam can fall. Thrul can fall. PCs can rise to take their place. Cities could by besieged and destroyed. Leaders of the various organizations could be overthrown. PCs could reach their loftiest goal, and then some (who has what it takes to follow in Velsharoon’s footsteps?! :) ), and the world literally could be transformed into a burning pile of rubble. The possibilities are endless, it would be one helluva ride, and I would be totally on board with that - believe it or not!

Why?

Because I would know that after 3, 4, 5, 6+ months the craziness would come to a (hopefully) satisfactory conclusion and the players and DMs involved would have had an (hopefully) amazing time and will be able to send off their PCs in a truly world-shattering way.

Then, should the reboot occur, we could start anew after maybe a short couple-month breather, and dive right back into ‘official lore’ craziness. I truly, honestly, and firmly believe that we can end our current 'beginning', start a new beginning that everyone here can enjoy, and we would have a year or more of incredible storylines and D&D fun. And just as when Thay was coming out of Beta testing and starting the world the first time, those that stick around for the brave 'new' world of the past I would be more than happy to give some type of compensation for a new PC(s).

[Anya Sandragon]

First and foremost, as a learning builder/scripter, I always keep in mind Thay is not a server of my design/creation or extensive labor. So, I would just like to say, Thayan, that I am grateful for the opportunity to voice my opinion (further). :)

Ok - I had to go back to the first page to read my original post.
The part that matters:

I'm okay either way really. I've played on a server that did a huge jump forward - some of us got to be descendants, but we started at scrap. What any other new player got. No heirlooms, server vault was wiped completely.

This is the server sundraoi mentioned.

I have to agree, that a complete 'reset' is the simplest solution (especially once you start talking about the scripting). I must further agree with her that your RL notoriety doesn't change, but leaving the server to a 'new' one would - at least in terms of the new server knowing you the player.

Anyhow, considering the variety of levels and everything (time put into the characters, etc) - I find it easier to handle having nothing vs having parts. If everyone starts with nothing, then... well… how much more 'fair' can it be. I like the idea of a 'free for all' towards the end - we did that on the other server too in a way – and it was a blast!. The last two days included a free leveling machine upon entry (though we had a Welcome Area for the start location.)

Ultimately (in my honest and humble opinion), Thayan, it is your server and your decision as to how much scripting you care to get into. No amount of my playing to work my characters up in level/notoriety can amount to the work you have put into/are doing/and (I believe) will do in the ever growing world of Thay you (and staff) have created.

[Animayhem]

I have played on other servers and they are different as well but unlike here it is not necessary to gain noterity to advance, penalties are less not one class,god or guild is favored above the others.

Here you do have to earn noteriety etc, but it takes long and if you do not do the typical things to gain noteriety then it goes slower which I accept as I stay within my characters' nature. Overall with my rl playing times have shifted and sometimes greatly reduced. I do not really have the time or energy to totally go back and redo or play an ancestor. The future would be easier as you would progress as your current character and players would still have what they have worked hard for, homes,faction standing etc.

However this is Thayan's world and a nice one it is. If he wishes to go back in time that is fine. You have a fine world and I can appreciate the diffculties of scripting,etc and maintaining it all.

Peace

[TheSupremeForce]

The quickest way to amass notoriety is via receiving XP from a DM. Creating situations with frequent DM interactions (which is what we're talking about here) creates notoriety at a rather rapid clip. On that note, a player who rarely (or never) can make it into DM-ed situations would definitely lag behind.

Whether or not a reboot is worthwhile really comes down to a number of factors. DM's would need to be active. Players would need to be active. Active recruiting would be important.

How many active players do we have right now? How many of them frequently RP together?

I'd absolutely vote to start over if it meant bumping up the player count, but that would require considerable effort from a lot of people.

Note: I'm not suggesting that people aren't trying now. I'm simply making an argument, since I've only logged onto the server a few times recently (it was empty each time).

[Karilynn]

I wanted to give this some more thinking before posting, but the posts just seem to keep flying by on this one, so I hope this isn't too incoherent :)

A few items to consider:
How many new players are there actually out there, considering how old the game is? We seem to get a couple every few months from other servers who last a bit, then just sort of wander off. I don't think we'll end up with an influx of new players either way, just because there aren't that many out there. Maybe there are some out there, but that's my opinion.

I know different players are motivated and enjoy different things in playing, so I do respect all the comments that have been made. I'm really happy to see so many people commenting, because that shows people are invested in the world.

For me, while it is fun to achieve goals with characters and move up in rank, whether as a wizard, or in a legion, or temple or guild or what-not, the biggest reason I like playing on the server is the fun I have with role-playing with other players, and the storylines I've been lucky enough to take part in, both big and small. There are a lot of amazing players and DMs here that are amazing and fun to play with. The reason I've not retired Melody is simply because I absolutely still have a blast role-playing her. The point of a game, after all, is to have fun. :) And I'll admit, I'd be crushed if I lost the chance to keep being able to role-play her, whether in a future Thay or a past Thay. It's not the notoriety, or faction items, or gold and such that drive me in that regard. So if through whatever "send back" happened, she started from scratch again, that'd be fine with me.

I think whatever direction our host decides to take with the server, all players should take a look at their player vaults and clean out any characters that they won't be playing. And if there is a "time warp" of sorts, I think there should be a definite limit as to how many characters (one maybe?) each player can bring back in time (even if it is a bring back to start from scratch), so to speak.

I can understand the difficulty in the 'role-playing' aspect of things with a "time warp" as opposed to a total "re-boot". On the other hand, any time a player brings in a new PC, there is already some challenge with that, so I'd say this isn't insurmountable. Some common things about Thay might be known (names of cities, or zulkirs, the rank of Red Wizards, etc.) but a lot wouldn't be. And if the number of PCs sent back is limited, that would help with that a bit. Just don't have them remember anything about the other "timeline". Otherwise, you'd have PCs remembering facts left and right about what happened in Thay's past, which would influence a bit how it was played in the new "time warp" time line. Ask the players (and there are great players on this server) to role play them as new PCs arriving in Thay as best they can.

And the fairness comments from others (and the amount of work involved in scripting and such that would go into a major transfer of PCs back and such! ) are certainly important things that need to be considered too.
I agree with comments from others about this being our wonderful host's server, and that our gracious host has put a lot of time and energy into the server, and we all should be grateful for having had the opportunity to play here. The fact that our host is asking for input from the players is just another sign of how much he cares about the server and players on it. With all the work he's put into it, I think really he needs to go in whatever direction he thinks would be best for the server and also most fun for him too. :)

I think that's enough rambling from me, for now. I would like to say thanks to everyone I've had the opportunity to roleplay with thus far, or whose events I was lucky enough to take part in. It's been fun, and I look forward to the future (or is it the past, or... arggh, time travel makes my head spin :) ) on the server, whatever direction it takes.

[TheSupremeForce]

A few items to consider:
How many new players are there actually out there, considering how old the game is? We seem to get a couple every few months from other servers who last a bit, then just sort of wander off. I don't think we'll end up with an influx of new players either way, just because there aren't that many out there. Maybe there are some out there, but that's my opinion.

The last "new" server I saw go live had better than thirty players around the clock for the first week (that number nose dived due to several issues), so there ARE people out there (this happened at the end of July). Convincing them to bother is where the difficulty lies. Players do tend to float to "new" things. They just rarely stick around for long, because after the initial rush, PW's tend to fall into a lull, usually when DM's get burnt out (or drop out for other reasons). I'm not sure what those floating players do, but I'd guess they return to whatever highly populated server they'd already frequented.

Now, Thay is the best server I've played on from a technical standpoint. The systems, etc are top notch. The setting is iconic.

But I'm with you. RP opportunities and community trump cool systems, setting, and every bell and whistle. There's definitely risk involved in a reboot, since it might not work in regard to bringing in new members. At the same time, IF everyone's willing to take the plunge, I do believe that it would work. Players are vastly more likely to float to a server where they can pop in at the same point as everyone else. An even playing field combined with active players and DM's bring in players and convince them to stay. Most people (at least the ones still playing NWN) aren't likely to pop into a basically empty server populated by one or two high level PC's.

[Pluto]

I've thought about this and I am casting my vote for a total setting reboot (w/ a restart for all) over anything else presented here.

I am also for this:

If a campaign should occur that will culminate in a setting reboot, we can do massive, wonderful, and terrible things. Tam can fall. Thrul can fall. PCs can rise to take their place. Cities could by besieged and destroyed. Leaders of the various organizations could be overthrown. PCs could reach their loftiest goal, and then some (who has what it takes to follow in Velsharoon’s footsteps?! :) ), and the world literally could be transformed into a burning pile of rubble. The possibilities are endless, it would be one helluva ride, and I would be totally on board with that - believe it or not!

Regardless of the outcome, I'll be around playing in any case. I love the server and get along with everyone here, despite the fact that I have a knack for playing goodly-aligned people who would like nothing more than to see Thay burn for it's sins.

You all are the warm and fuzzy kind of evil. ;)

[Balanor]

I am pleasantly surprised, and very happy, at the support for a complete reboot. Thank you everyone for your responses. I echo Karilynn’s sentiment in that it is great to see such a number of replies to this topic and the discussion so far. I do want everyone to know that I am carefully reading through everything here - even if I’m not responding to all comments. I really want to try and get any type of reboot as close to ‘right’ as possible, so I really do appreciate your comments either way (for or against).


For people concerned or worried about ‘losing’ your current PC in a complete server reboot (which could definitely be recreated after a server reboot if you like), I’d like to ask you think for a moment about the purpose of your primary PC(s). I don’t mean that in a very philosophical way; but rather in terms of what is its purpose, what is its most important long-term goal(s), and what drives it?

Now, let’s say you provide that information to the DMs here and we include that into the storyline where your PC finds its purpose, reaches its goal(s) (even if only semi-realistic), and has what could be considered a ‘happy’ ending. How much longer would you want to play it? What do you do with a PC at the pinnacle of its career? Even in regular D&D PnP games when that happens the PC is usually retired as a NPC the DM brings out on occasion, I believe.

What I am proposing is something similar. So with a setting reboot, regardless of exactly how it would be accomplished, one of the very first goals that I have for the journey is to get the goals of our long-term PCs realized. I will use the most well-known example I can think of and spoil the ‘surprise’ for the guy that has remained conspicuously silent: Maurin Greyhand played by Githzerai Monk. For literally (real-time) years, we have all known that Maurin has aspired to replace Aznar Thrul as Zulkir of Evocation. This *will* happen if moving to a future which will end in Thay’s past. But again, what does Gith do once Maurin becomes a zulkir? Obviously there can always be something bigger and better, but where does it end and how much can really be done without a DM focusing on storylines just for that person? Does he aspire to take over Thay? Then the world? Then become a god? Where is the line drawn? Eventually, there comes a point when the person running the campaign (either a DM on a PW or in PnP) says ‘that’s enough, we’re moving on to other things’, or the player says ‘I want to try something new’ and the PC is retired.

That is what I would like to do when I suggest a setting reboot. My very first priority would be to make sure we give at least one of your long-term PCs months of time to play that powerful leader of a guild/faction/whatever, rule a castle or town/city after raising an army and taking it for themselves, sit on the zulkir’s throne, or enjoy realizing whatever other important goal that PC may have. This would be rather than outright retiring them shortly after achieving their destiny. You would get to have your cake and eat it too. The caveat is that it would not last forever (but then, nothing does...) and the campaign would eventually end in...well...I don’t want to ruin that surprise. ;)


Finally, I do not want to you all here in a limbo wondering what is coming. Since I’ve stirred up a little bit of a hornets nest and probably more than a little uncertainty about what the future holds, I would like to make a decision soon regarding whether to go forward with a server reboot. As a note though, the actual reboot would not occur for many months even if it were decided to move forward with one. So my closing request here is that if you have anything to add to this discussion or would like your opinion heard and a chance to influence the decision one way or the other, please post in the next day or two.

[Animayhem]

If I understand correctly, you have decided to move Thay to the future, rather then back to the past?