[Sten]

Hello!

Last night I was looking at some Legionnaire's being punished because the lovely Richal ratted them out, because none of the Legionnaire's knew who Anznar Thrul was. So they were given the punishment of I believe it was 1 last at first for it, then later given 5 more becasue they did not obey an order from a Captain.

What I'm getting at here is the Legion is FAR too soft with it's punishment's, 5 Lashes is far too little for anything.(Atleast I think so)

In the old times offending an officer, not following orders or stealing. Would be punished with "Running the Gauntlet" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_the_gauntlet ) So I highly encourage tougher punishment's and the second someone says "This is unfair!"(IG) then give them atleast double up on the punishment..

No offense meant towards any of the Players involved last night.

-Sten

Edit: I hope people understand what I mean..otherwise ask.

[EdinSumar]

Yeah, totally punish people heavier.

No other inputs on this?

- Edin

[BigbysBackhand]

As my character Aerin Stormbringer was the one to administer the punishments i think i have a say in this :) Firstly Aerin did not want to punish them for not knowing who aznur thrul was as they were all new to the legion and most of them "foriegners" the legion sergeant master also does not tell you that you are serving Aznur Thrul just the Tharchion and all red wizards in general nor anywhere else that i have looked in game that tells you easily who the tharchion of the priador is without asking other players who may or may not know or looking at outside sources which of course is not a requirement. Second as they were all guilty of the same offense..couldnt very well run the guantlet as there werent enough non offending legionairs on to do so...and caning/birching/switching/..is a well established form of punishment and given that i rped hitting them hard enough to break skin it is up to those players to then rp having scars and difficulty laying on their backs or wearing their armor ect ect. and i would like to see any one of us think that is a "light" punishment if it were to ever happen in real life :P

now dont get me wrong i am all for enforcing the rather vague laws of thay :) if i ever catch a thief pc or murderer ect ect ...Aerin has Killed two PC's on the orders of higher ups for varying offenses however i dont personally like actually doing damage to another PC as punishment when it can be resolved with simple RP. but as this was a discipline matter and a minor one as it was also a first offense for all these "newbie" legionairs i think it was rather fitting..the punishment must fit the crime..ive wanted to put some one in the stocks aswell as Richal knows :) but of course theres no way to actually force them to sit there.

[Sten]

I don't think that it should be softer for just because it's their first time, and if people choose not to research about the setting they are playing in. Then they sorta had it come'ing.

But I understand that you do not enjoy doing alot of damage to other PC's I sometimes feel the same way sometimes, but I still find 5 lever hits far too soft!
I mean, when I punish the Cyricists I usually whip them till they are blacked out, then spit on them and call them names..usually infront of people to humiliate them even more, 5 hit's is not a real punishment in my mind, Especially not for a place like Thay.

-Sten

[BigbysBackhand]

one of several differences of a follow of Cyric..and one of Helm :D he might be LE but he does still try to protect the weak especially if they are his own men and might save his life one day ;) but i tell you what if you ever make a legion character and disobey orders ill be sure to have a nasty punishment picked out just for you lol :P and i do understand your point of view but as its not allready in the server under character guide or features of thay and this forum is also not required to play cant punish them for not knowing, heck im sometimes lazy and dont want to research stuff either.

[Purulent Carcass]

5 hits for each of 4 legionnares took nearly an hour to rp.

[Vrolmar]

Legionary Discipline

Much like awards or commendations every army also has had similar problems with things like insubordination, desertion and even mutiny. During the Republican era, the discipline of the Legions was more strict and harsh than in the Imperial era.

This may be the result of several factors, including the volunteer nature of the Imperial Legion. More likely to be of influence was the Emperor's need to keep the army loyal and happy to preserve his position, or just the simple fact that as generations passed people were more lenient than they were in earlier eras.

Source

As Thay is much like a Byzantine state where power is dispersed among powerful individuals and factions that strive against one another and the army or legion is beholden to the power of their Tharchion and the Red Wizards that would mean that the army would not hold much political power and probably have harsher measures of discipline as referenced here.

Legionary Disciplines

Evidence that leniency was practiced depending on the officers and aspect of the army


I think that insubordination and a general lack of discipline would be severely punished in an army that lacked discipline. Quite frankly, many Legionnaires do not understand how to be quiet and listen to orders properly. They speak out of turn while being punished and offer their opinions when silence and obedience would be required.

The punishment for say, Aerin going lenient for their ignorance, would be fine and fit with his character. I would disagree that the punishment for complaining and showing outrage was handled properly as insubordination should be squelched harshly.

[Sten]

5 hits for each of 4 legionnares took nearly an hour to rp.

Well mostly because of the lack of discipline and the fact that most of the recruit's just talked, disobeying an order given by a Captain, it is not surprise that the RP took nearly an hour.

Tho time can be a problem I still heavily support, tougher punishment's.

-Sten

[Balanor]

Interesting discussion. This has been very enlightening.

It seems to me that some additional leverage for faction leaders might be useful to keep insubordinate members in line, limit them faction-wise ICly, or cut them loose entirely. So I will soon be completing the long-overdue faction addition to allow ranks 4 & 5 (Captains and Tribunes, Veteran Members and Officers, Clergy and Respected Clergy) of the various factions to use their faction item on a member of a lesser rank to either halt faction advancement or boot them out of the faction altogether. Getting booted will come with a pretty good hit to notoriety to the offending member, so it will affect other things that rely on notoriety (word spreads about the individual's unreliability/disgrace/whatever).

I imagine the boot option would be used only very rarely, but the threat or thought of it as a potential option may be deterrant enough to keep more faction members in line and following their leaders orders. Also, DMs and the server log would be notifed every time either of those options are used as well.

[Sten]

Looking forward to that addition, as I think it will help greatly on theese disrespectfull people within the Legion(and other places).

-Sten